Sunday, July 23, 2006

Fair and Ugly

I'm too lazy to do an entire series on Bollywood's Bong Belles (there I've done the stupid alliteration), but I just couldn't resist taking this up. Desi Pundit directed me to a post on Pickled Politics, which had decided to expended valuable column space on a remark by Rimi Sen, an actress, whose been fairly successful in Bollywood recently. What exactly did our lady say to merit this attention? Speaking of her role in the upcoming movie Golmaal, she says:

I play a sweet and beautiful girl in the film. The best thing that I like about the film is that though it has four heroes, I am the only heroine. Rohit Shetty is amazing as a director. He can make even a black African look pretty


(The quote first appeared in an interview with Glamsham.com, who have since replaced the offending sentence in the interview. However, Pickled Politics has saved a screen shot so you can see it still)

Apparently, this is not the first time that Rimi has made such horrific statements. As a commenter on Pickled Politics said:

As shocking as this is, its not the first time. At the time of the release of “Kyon Ki” last year, I saw one of her interviews on TV. The host complimented her on her beauty and in reply she said that she’s not very beautiful. In fact, without makeup she looks like a NEPALI


Now of course as every Indian knows, the worst thing about this sort of racism is that the speaker of such statements is usually completely oblivious of the racist connotations of their words. I have heard my own relatives state that white is beautiful and dark is ugly without the slightest bit of consciousness about how culturally warped their perceptions are.

The beauty aesthetic in India is so strongly hardwired to only recognize white skin and big eyes as beautiful that anything that deviates from that aesthetic is immediately dismissed as lacking in beauty. All my life, it hurt me to see perfectly gorgeous girls being called ugly just because they had dark skin (and we Indians are absolutely shameless when it comes to passing rude comments on someone's appearance). And very ordinary looking girls celebrated as great beauties simply because they had lighter skin. Of course this is not entirely universal. I've know many Indian men who assure me they prefer darker women.

I'm normally never so mean, but I thought in the context of her remarks, it wouldn't be amiss to give Ms. Sen a dose of her own medicine. I think her interviewer was quite correct in assessing that she isn't beautiful. In fact, Rimi Sen doesn't even have one ounce of the beauty, elegance and grace of any of the Ethiopean girls in my neighbourhood. These Ethiopian girls are tall with slender, willowy bodies and chocolate skin that positively glows (I swear I've never seen anyone's skin glow so intensely). They have broad foreheads and beautiful eyes, and the appearance of a gazelle when they move. Those are the sort of genes that created Liya Kebede, a supermodel universally considered one of the most beautiful women in fashion.

As for Nepalis, which is basically Rimi's shorthand for women with East Asian features, I wouldn't embarass her with a whole host of East and South-east Asian women who are far superior to her in beauty and charm. Actually, on second thoughts, I will. There's Song Hye Kyo, the hugely popular Korean soap opera star. It's perhaps a bit harsh to invoke someone like Zhang Ziyi, given she's so out of Ms. Sen's league, but I'd do it anyway. And then we have the Indonesian Tiara Lestari, who good heavens, is both dark and has oriental eyes, so I can imagine Ms. Sen going into a paroxysms of horror on seeing her. All gorgeous, gorgeous women, sensual, alluring in a way that our Behenji-Turned-Mod actress can only wish she was.

But the point is not that there are African and Asian women far more beautiful than Rimi is (that was just me being bitchy, in case you didn't notice). No one, not even theoretically the most beautiful woman in the world (Aishwarya I'm NOT looking at you) can get away with saying things like that. The point is that beauty is culturally constructed, and if you hold any specific race to be devoid of beauty purely based on racial characteristics, then you're stupid at best and deliberately racist at worst. Given Ms. Sen's track record, I'm more inclined to believe the former, but surely her stupidity cannot be an excuse for such nauseous statements.

First we have the Pooja Bhatt controversy where our good ol' porky-pie tells a South African woman that she's too dark to succeed as an actress in Bollywood. I mean, Pooja Bhatt telling another actress what works in Bollywood and what doesn't has to be pretty ironic. And now this. Can someone please give these Bollywood actresses some awareness workshops so they don't come off as jackasses. Anyone?

79 Comments:

Anonymous shivam said...

Racist Indians! Rarely do they let thier racism expressedbe expressed explicitly. Otherwise it's expressed every morning with Fair and Lovely and Handsome and what not. Yet the two accusations that irk an average Indian are racist and feudal. Call them maa behen ki gaalis, but don't call them racist.

1:30 AM  
Anonymous Sanity Starved said...

:D

A little less so but, if you are a guy, they still call you Kaalia! And, it is quite disgusting how all the music videos and songs feature "white-skinned" Caucasian models these days.

Oh, thanks for those links :D

6:01 AM  
Blogger thalassa_mikra said...

Shivam, yes the brownies of the world have appropriated the right to call Whites racist, but are shocked when the epithet is applied to them. Just ask any African student in India if Indians are racist or not.

Pidus, yes I know. I have a cousin who's very handsome, and his nickname is Kalu, and trust me, it is meant as a slight, not a compliment. Even though he's gorgeous, everyone around him sighs and says "If only he was fairer.." WTF???

Glad you liked the links!

8:32 AM  
Blogger Tabula Rasa said...

yeah, cool links :-D

but tell me what's worse -- stupid actresses saying stupid things (not everyone is a meryl streep or a shabana azmi) or the supposedly educated purveyors of journalism giving them the air time?

10:54 AM  
Blogger Sriram said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

11:16 AM  
Blogger Sriram said...

Is it just me who feels it wasn't too rascist?
Tell me how different "African-American" is from "black african"? Seriously yo, think about it.. the term "african-american" puts a racist blanket on the entire continent, leading to a perception that if someone's white, they ain't from africa. get the drift? i think this is yet another case of much ado about nothing. However the implication that black africans are not pretty is worrying. Maybe Rimi Sen needs to meet a few people who might knock some sense into her empty head!

11:18 AM  
Blogger Gamesmaster G9 said...

I don't know if you've seen any of the recent ads for fairness products - most of them are disgustingly offensive. There was one for F&L which was not only racist, but also blatantly sexist. And the other one which advised the use of its product to "look like a foreigner".

Ironically, though I find this practice of equating fairness with good looks abhorring, I have very light skin (for an Indian), and regularly get praised by older people for looking like a "sahib". I don't know how to get across to them that I don't consider it a compliment.

12:14 PM  
Blogger Adagio For Strings said...

Here JUST for you love I rated all the women invoked in this article. Lets do it just based on face assuming all of them have good bods.

Rimi Sen ~ 5.
Liya Kebede ~ 8.5
SHG ~ 4.5
ZZ ~ 4
TL ~ 5
AR ~ 7.5
PB ~ 5
TM ~ 100 ;)

I think beauty is atleast partly culturally conditioned but I dont know if thats the complete story.

12:19 PM  
Blogger Szerelem said...

OMG....she.did.not.say.that!!
i am ashamed for her sake just reading that comment....sigh...
why, why, why do indians have some sort of post colonial fixation with light skin and light eyes??
aand seriously rimi sen beautiful? and im not being bitchy - honest more like...has she seen Naomi Campbell or Gong Li?You are spot on about beauty being a cultural construct but to not find women of a certain race beautiful (such as the many you have mentioned) just means the person in question is blind.

12:29 PM  
Blogger Sriram said...

whew! updated my blogroll atlast! and you're on it :P

12:56 PM  
Blogger km said...

Of course this is not entirely universal. I've know many Indian men who assure me they prefer darker women.

All good points, Thalassa, but I was not sure if the above words were written with tongue planted firmly in cheek. "Prefer darker women" is the same as "prefer white/brown women".

But yeah, in general, we are blessed with a blissful lack of self-awareness (of our attitudes and behavior.)

1:38 PM  
Blogger sunshine said...

i agree... we're ready to blame caucasian people when they discriminate us.. while bollywood movies have no qualms about making derogatory remarks about african-americans or jamaicans (esp. in those so-called-comedy-scenes)

1:48 PM  
Blogger Ketan said...

here is one more
Thandie Newton
gorgeous

3:45 PM  
Blogger thalassa_mikra said...

But TR, this did come off a celebrity news website. Vapidity and shallowness are fine by me, prejudice is not.

Sriram, I did not take offence to "Black African". I don't expect Ms. Sen to have so much geopolitical awareness, but "Black African" is perfectly acceptable, given there are "White Africans", "Arab Africans", "Bedouin Africans", etc.

Ani, Fair and Lovely ads disgust me. Given what I've heard of the type of folks who run HLL, I'm not surprised that they would put out such ads.

Adagio, Awww, too cute. I honestly think a lot of it is culturally conditioned. But it is one thing to have a preference, and quite another to make absolute judgements.

5:45 PM  
Blogger Sriram said...

Ok, fair enough. As for those dark-skinned types not looking beautiful - PSHAW!!!! Those folks have never set their sights on Nandita Das :P.. we linked to this post as well. no worries, i hope?

5:52 PM  
Blogger thalassa_mikra said...

Szerelem, oh yes she did. By the way, the light eye fixation is fairly recent. I have several light-eyed persons in my family, and it's always been considered undesirable to be light-eyed (some communities think it brings bad luck). Remember how everyone used to say how "un-Indian" Karisma Kapoor looks because of her blue eyes. I guess things have changed since then.

But KM, a preference is an aesthetic choice. You may prefer a certain look. Generally speaking, I prefer men with dark brown or black hair. I have an Indian friend who prefers blonde women. However, to make a generic statement about black Africans and Nepalis being ugly is just good old fashioned racist prejudice.

Sunshine, Bollywood and the caricature of dark-skinned people is a horror story for another day. Ironically, Africa remains a huge market for Bollywood films, while the Europeans and Anglo Americans we cravenly worship find Hindi films bizarre.

Ketan, Thandie Newton is very beautiful. So is Yasmine Warsame, Iman and a number of other African women or women of African origin.

5:53 PM  
Blogger Mint Chutney said...

I have vivid memories of visiting India in the 10th grade and my cousin advising me to stay out of the sun because I would turn dark and then no one would want to marry me. Her own opaque pigment was complimented by a mouthful of teeth (only 3 of which were straight). She is the fairest and dumbest of all the cousins. It was as if the F&L drained all the brain power out of her.

11:10 PM  
Blogger Grey Shades said...

I guess beauty lies in the eye of the beholder and everybody is entitled to their two bits of thought right? But yes do agree with you that the world (full of Rimi's) in general is skewed towards white skin. Say, would you have Liya Kebede number? :)

11:29 PM  
Blogger Tabula Rasa said...

right. "celebrity news". my point in a nutshell.

(ps. i'm with szerelem -- gong li over zhang ziyi anyday!)

12:04 AM  
Blogger Szerelem said...

TR - hehe...yes gong li over zhang ziyi anyday!!
Btw, on a totally diff note also noticed that almost all the chinese people i know (from mainland, and i know quite a lot) greatly dislike Ziyi...keep wondering why?

1:20 AM  
Blogger Curious Critic said...

I agree that Rimi Sen's remarks are blatantly racist and discriminatory, and all they really show is her ignorance of other cultures.

However, I'm not sure about this thing you mention about beauty being a social construct... I've heard a lot of people say this, but they never really provide justification.

There's 2 things:

1) The fact that different cultures find different types of women beautiful can be genetic. Do you know whether Americans of Indian decent find American women more beautiful (as as whole) than Indian women? That would settle the issue.

2) The specifics of beauty might be culturally chosen -- Liya Kebede versus Denise Richards -- but the general features need not be. Universally, younger, fitter and more hourglass-shaped women are considered attractive.

What do you think?

5:07 AM  
Blogger thalassa_mikra said...

Sriram, thanks! By all menas.

Mint, Here's the ironic bit. F&L contains niacinamide, a known melanin suppressant. So yes, it can make the skin lighter. However, if you don't supplement it with a sunscreen and are out in the sun, get this, lack of melanin makes your skin vulnerable, darker, wrinkled and ages your skin. Bet your cousin didn't know that :)?

Grey Shades, big difference between preference and prejudice. Saying you prefer X or Y is very different from saying W or Z is ugly. And if all the deeply tanned Italian and Greek women are to be believed, the world is more skewed towards cafe au lait, not white.

Tabula Rasa, I do agree with you. I think Gong Li is ethereally beautiful.

Szerelem, Zhang Ziyi has the reputation of being quite the gold digger in the Chinese media. Besides she's supposed to be arrogant.

Curious Critic, well caveat first, there are no generic "American women". America is made up of many differnt ethnic and racial groups.

I honestly know very little about the aesthetic preferences of Indian-Americans, but anecdotally speaking, they seem much less hung up on "fair skin" and seem quite happy and proud being brown.

And Indians are not a racially homogenous group to begin with, so the genetics argument doesn't hold.

About features, it varies widely from culture to culture. Some cultures like big strong noses, some small upturned ones. Some like long faces, some round. Apparently the only thing that stays consistent across cultures is the hips-to-waist ratio because it is a primaeval indicator of child-bearing ability.

7:18 AM  
Blogger Old Spice said...

I'd just like to chime in here by saying that Rimi Sen has a big rear. Huge, even - of the sort it's criminal to put in tight jeans, for fear of blocking out the sun.

There. Now I've taken my shallow pot-shot too.

10:41 AM  
Blogger Szerelem said...

well i do know of Ziyis rep in general but also think her stock tumbled greatly when she decided to do geisha (well never mind that gong li was in it too). My room mate last year was chinese and she got completely worked up over the fact that it wasnt "bad enough that ziyi plays an Japanese, she plays a japanese whore!"....i heard that argument a few times from others as well but they casually shrugged of gong lis presence in the movie (never mind the delicate issue of geishas not technically being "whores")...!!

About the cultural construct of beauty well, its funny how it changes isnt it? i would argue that traditionally in India the ideal figure would be a very voluputous one (note the ancient sculptures, painting and carvings esp those in temples most notably Khajuraho), i dont think thats true any more esp in the metros...
and say a century or so ago would anyone have considered a women with cropped hair beautiful? i doubt it....

11:50 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well what's your problem? Black people ARE ugly.Accept it.Fair is beautiful.Nobody wants a black girl.

12:27 PM  
Blogger Sriram said...

Ah! looks like we have an angry anon at last! sheeesh!

12:43 PM  
Blogger thalassa_mikra said...

Graduate, keep em' coming. Yes there's some major junk in the trunk issues there.

Szerelem, I think Geisha was also a factor. Wasn't the film banned in China? The Chinese haven't really forgiven the Japanese for what they did to them in World War II.

And you're right about short hair. A few decades ago, at least in Bengal, short hair was for widows, and something that was imposed on them, they weren't clipping their hair willingly.

Anon darling, you insecure little twit, no one fucking cares what you think. You can take your sorry little opinion and shove it where the sun don't shine.

Sriram, yes a troll, but I just felt like venting on someone :).

2:52 PM  
Blogger Neela said...

TM

I liked your post but was surprised at your potshots at HLL people. They are no better or worse than a lot of other people (although I don't like F&L). But curious ot know what you heard about them.

n!

disclaimer: I once worked there. for a short time.

7:58 PM  
Blogger GhostOfTomJoad said...

Has this Rimi thing ever heard of an Alicia Keys? Or, Michelle Yeoh? Forget being on the same page with them, she's not even in the book!

Besides, if fair skin be the yardstick of beauty, as she has suggested, she's hardly going to qualify. She's far from fair herself! This is precisely what the Mira Nair film 'Mississippi Masala' was all about...a Kenyan-Indian(?) family being against their daughter's relationship with Denzel Washington b'cos he's Black.

I think we need to wake up to the real problems and issues in life. There's more to it than the colours of our skins, sexual orientation and religion. We need to grow up.

9:23 PM  
Blogger Perspective Inc. said...

Unbelievable that in this day and age, somebody can actually get away with crap like that!
What a daft idiot!

12:52 AM  
Blogger San said...

oh she is one mad chick, read this link yday actually - just goes to show how many bombo's we have in teh industry!

1:48 AM  
Blogger thalassa_mikra said...

Neela, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that all HLL people are a certain way. But a friend's boyfriend worked there for three years and said that the top management was extremely sexist and treated female junior managers despicably. Does that resonate with your experiences? Or perhaps it was just his division.

Ghost, it's a peculiar game of one upmanship we play, I'm prettier than you because I'm one shade lighter than you.

By the way, as far as I remember, besides the racism angle, the one thing that complicated Mississippi Masala was the fact that the family was from Uganda and had been expelled by the Idi Amin regime. That was a racist action by the Amin regime, because the Indians, like the ethnic Chinese in South-east Asia, held a lot of economic clout in Uganda.

Perspective, indeed.

San, very true.

8:42 AM  
Blogger swar said...

its a long way before 'educated' indians open their minds and understand, accept and be sensitive to cultural differences. coming from northeast india, i know how the average indian can be a complete bigot and actually seek justifications for his/her racial slurs. recently, i came across two indian blogs which were blithely calling chinese 'stinking chinkis' and wondering 'if they can see much of the world through their small eyes'. both the blogs are owned by two, young 'educated' indians working in hongkong. when i linked their posts to my blog and criticised them, they attacked me instead, justifying that there is nothing wrong with using 'chinkis' as a description because in india it is accepted to call the northeasterners 'chinkis' as it makes for easy identification!!! WTF.

our country needs a very vigilant cultural framing/naming. as you rightly hold the opinion many times, indians are not a racially homogeneous entity. the smug notion that any indian who uses racial slurs should be ignored just because s/he might not be aware of its connotations has to be done away with. we cant go on constantly making excuses for our own prejudices.

2:28 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So what? Why are you crucifying her? Why would dark people be beautiful? Even blacks don't think they are beautiful.Why pick on Rimi?

3:17 AM  
Blogger thalassa_mikra said...

Oh Bem, don't get me started on the horrors of racial slurs that other Indians fling glibly on North-east Indians. And I don't buy this argument for a moment that it is not used pejoratively, I've heard it used as an insult repeatedly in India.

And you're right, a beginning has to be made by stopping the justification of our prejudices.

Anonymous darling, are you the same insecure little twit as above, or am I so blessed as to have two insecure little twits visiting my blog?

Needless to say, nobody gives a rat's ass for your pearls of wisdom. Now be a good frog and go back to that sorry little well you climbed out of.

9:02 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nope.That was my first comment.Anyway dark skinned people aren't beautiful but that's ok.Not everyone is supposed to be beautiful.That would be the perfect world. They would be lucky enough to get a white skinned guy as their husband.

11:39 AM  
Blogger thalassa_mikra said...

Anonymous, I know many white men who'd be more than happy if dark Indian women decide to get really serious in their pursuit of a white-skinned guy. After all, why settle for a wannabe-white Indian whose skin is only a lighter shade of brown when you can get the real deal?

If white skin was the only desirable characteristic, most Indian men should be the first to be crossed off the list.

12:26 PM  
Blogger Neela said...

oh that's Ok TM you don't need to apologize. Just that my experience was quite different, so I was a bit surprised at your reaction - thought it was the usual multinationals are evil rant. But I can see how your friends boyfriends experience could colour things and to be honest, I can't put hand on heart and guarantee that these things might not have happened at HLL or at many other firms in corporate India - just that I was remarkably lucky to escape them.

Nice post on the Assyrians btw.

n!

12:19 AM  
Blogger Neela said...

eeks, i just re-read my comment and I realized it sounded stupid, i mean i know you weren't apologizing apologizing, but anyway...so skip the "no need to apologize bit".

I guess 2 shandies at 3 in the morning will do that to your powers of comprehension.

n!

12:38 AM  
Blogger Janefield said...

unbelievable! rimi turned out to be another airhead...very sad indeed. indians who make such remarks are mostly clueless about the impact and significance of what they are saying, of coz some are just plain mean, like the nasty aunties who comment on li'l kids' complexions' all the time...SHEESH :|

3:33 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

the pple with white skinned are wishing to have tanned, dark skinned.Its ironic how indian men and women alike are trying to bleach their skin inorder to be white. As far as the comment of rimi concerns, she can't compete with the following ladies in the beauty department: Iman, Yasmin Warsame, Leya kebed, Noame campbell, Hally Berry, Beyonc'e, alicia keys, and lists goes on. I guess we should accept our own identity instead of trying to find a new one. In my opinion, I don't think being light skinned is beautiful.

1:12 PM  
Blogger thalassa_mikra said...

Neela, yes HLL is a huge corporation with lots of different kinds of employees, and anyone who consumes 2 shandies at 3 in the morning is an asset to their organization in my book :). Though I'd have to say, whoever it is that greenlights those Fair and Lovely ads in HLL is a sexist asshole. Just that.

Chosen, yes I've never been able to figure out why we think it's totally OK to be hypercritical of a little girl's appearance. And if you complain, then the aunties get all wide-eyed and say "oh, but I didn't mean any harm!". Well duh, but you did knock the child's self-esteem down a few notches.

Anonymous, I think the most ironic bit about this is that anyone who sees Beyonce, Alicia and Rimi together would not be able to tell their skin colour apart.

5:11 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

ok u guys are stupid...rimi sen is way hotter than any of those other women mentioned (with the exception of Aeshwariya Rai of course).

I for one think she has the perfect skin tone, not completely white, but a nice even tan. I say every Indian should try to imitate that tone. It's true completely black does look ugly, but completely white looks ugly as well. Rimi Sen has a perfect skin tone.

12:26 AM  
Blogger thalassa_mikra said...

Now why did I get so many anonymous trolls on this particular post. Touched a raw nerve, didn't I?

Anyway anonymous #3, you're more than welcome to cherish and fantasize about Ms. Sen. That's your preference.

However I do reserve the right to call you a dumbfuck and worse for making sweeping assertions about people with dark and white skin.

But then, poor you, you're the one who thinks Rimi Sen is hot ha.ha.ha.

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Anonymous Shalini said...

I am so sick of Indians always thinking fair skin is so good. I haven't seen many F&L commercials, but the ones I saw disgust me. What is with fair skin anyway? Don't they see that so many of their own people aren't fair-skinned? I'm an Indian from the Philippines and I've met other Indians who were born here and are pretty educated and yet they think fair skin makes a girl look so nice! (Well it could also be becasue Filipinos ALSO think fair skin is really nice.) The girl might not even be that pretty, she just has to be FAIR, then they're all.. YEAHHH, SHE'S SOO PRETTY! And I'm like.. I don't really see it.. Pfft. When I read shit like this, I feel like boxing Indians' faces.
These actresses may be famous and hot and pretty and sexy but they sound so dumb and ignorant. It's like they weren't educated.. or if they were, it didn't open their minds to the rest of the world.
Oh! And I also think that the way Indians think of fair skin is embarassing.. it's like we can't accept who we are--that some of us are dark. I don't like it.

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3:34 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

'''Or, Michelle Yeoh? '''
Not to offend anyone, but I did not find her even remotely pretty. That is not to say that she is ugly, just somewhat plain(or "ordinary-looking") in my opinion. Rimi Sen is attractive, though perhaps not beautiful.

I am not the same individual as the other "anonymous."

4:36 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'd never heard of Remi Sen until I read this article. I clicked on the name, saw her pics, and I have to say---this bitch is ugly.

She would be crushed by the likes of Ms Agbani Darego.

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